Work and anime placement

[Raven_Steel]

So I work at a certain place that sells cd/dvds. Over the past three years I have created an anime section, unique only to my store. Our anime is listed under foreign film, as we don’t have an anime category. This has worked fine, the anime sells well enought that my DM allows me to order new titles. The problem has come from our system now putting all anime into "children". Not only is this offensive to anime fans but is also irresponsible. Animes such as gantz, elfin lied, and Rin are all now classified as childrens films, right next to disney and nick shows. Anime may be cartoons but most are certainly not made for kids. It just perpetuates that stereotype that anime and cartoons are for kids. I am attempting to fix this gross error in judgment by our home office but it does not look like I will be getting my way. You really have got to hate large bureaucratic businesses.

[Servitude]

Don't take it so seriously. Blockbuster used to have "Kite" in it's children section for the same reason. I guess some kid got their mother to rent it and the mom was disgusted at the sex scenes. Blockbuster then moved their anime to "Special Interest" after that.

It doesn't matter to me where they put it, so long as it's there.

[brabbit1987]

I find the problem is in america ... when people see a cartoon, they automatically think ... kids. The reason is because animation has become something meant for kids in america. Seriously, who in america decided animation had to be for kids? It's art for crying out load >.>. It's certainly something that doesn't need to be kiddy. So when people see it, they tend to think it belongs in the kids section.

I have the same problem with my sisters husband constanty telling me how, it's ok to like cartoons and he likes cartoons too. >.> ... does it look like I am watching looney toons here? XD People need to realize, anime and cartoons are not the same thing. They are certainly both animation, but they are different in nearly every aspect.

[Servitude]

Cartoons and anime are the same. Anime = Japanese cartoons. The majority of anime is aimed at children, guys, just as the majority of American animation. American's have quite a few of adult based cartoons, but it doesn't out number the younger based ones. Elfen Lied and Gantz are both aimed for late teens. The likes of Rin, aren't. Keep in mind that "anime" is a very broad term that's mainly made out of family friendly shows, not super cool adult animation.

Above all, why do you care if it's in children's? The only way it should feel insulting would be due to insecurities (not insulting you). Just walk in and grab them, it doesn't matter where they're placed.

[brabbit1987]

Cartoons and anime are the same. Anime = Japanese cartoons. The majority of anime is aimed at children, guys, just as the majority of American animation. American's have quite a few of adult based cartoons, but it doesn't out number the younger based ones. Elfen Lied and Gantz are both aimed for late teens. The likes of Rin, aren't. Keep in mind that "anime" is a very broad term that's mainly made out of family friendly shows, not super cool adult animation.

Above all, why do you care if it's in children's? The only way it should feel insulting would be due to insecurities (not insulting you). Just walk in and grab them, it doesn't matter where they're placed.

Despite what you say, I am talking about american cartoons. The majority is aimed at kids. Of course there are some adult american cartoons, but it's certainly not like anime at all. Also calling anime a cartoon tends to irrtate many anime fans, because cartoons are usually refured to being something like tom and jerry. Welcome to america where terms sometimes are not used with it's real definition.

So don't try to act like you know what your talking about.

"The majority of anime is aimed at children, guys, just as the majority of American animation"

... this is not true at all. I know tons about the history of anime, and you are really wrong. There are "some" mainly for kids. Anime is made for all ages and all types of people. Or are you forgetting the vast ammount of Hentai out there and other highly sexual anime?

Point is, stories on anime are more mature then stories on american cartoons. Elfen Lied's rating is for older teens, but really in an american sense .. it would be rated R. Heck, in an american sense sailor moon should be rated PG-13 and if they included everything that the japanese version had it probably be rated higher then that. The majority of anime has so much fan service and sexual content, not sure how you could think it's made for kids. Heck my sister thought I was watching cartoon porn when I watched Girls Bravo, and it's not even hentai.

Having anime in a kids section is just plain bad, unless it actually meant for kids. Of course myself I don't mind buying from the childrens section. But it's still not good that it is there. If anyone tells me it's for children I show them a short clip of Girls Bravo ... that would change anyone's mind in an instant.

BTW ...

Anime = Japanese Animation .... not Japanese Cartoons.

TL;DR: To put it simply, Cartoons and anime are "not" the same thing in an american sense. The only time they are seen as the same is when someone has no clue about actual anime. Also keep in Mind Japan and America have different rating systems. Something in Japan that is for older teens could be rated much higher in america. There is just to much sexual content and references, along with blood, gore, and violence for the majority of anime to be for kids.

[Servitude]

Despite what you say, I am talking about american cartoons. The majority is aimed at kids. Of course there are some adult american cartoons, but it's certainly not like anime at all. Also calling anime a cartoon tends to irrtate many anime fans, because cartoons are usually refured to being something like tom and jerry. Welcome to america where terms sometimes are not used with it's real definition.

People get irritated when you call them cartoons because they think it implies something immature and childish, which is a stereotype which is typically implied in most sense. However, I'm not using "cartoon" to degrade what we all enjoy. By definition, anime = cartoons.

So don't try to act like you know what your talking about.

Sorry, I must have missed your PHD in Anime.

"The majority of anime is aimed at children, guys, just as the majority of American animation"

... this is not true at all. I know tons about the history of anime, and you are really wrong. There are "some" mainly for kids. Anime is made for all ages and all types of people. Or are you forgetting the vast ammount of Hentai out there and other highly sexual anime?

The same can be said about American cartoons. You're generalizing.

Point is, stories on anime are more mature then stories on american cartoons. Elfen Lied's rating is for older teens, but really in an american sense .. it would be rated R. Heck, in an american sense sailor moon should be rated PG-13 and if they included everything that the japanese version had it probably be rated higher then that. The majority of anime has so much fan service and sexual content, not sure how you could think it's made for kids. Heck my sister thought I was watching cartoon porn when I watched Girls Bravo, and it's not even hentai.

You do not address that a large portion of anime is family oriented and just say that you've watched stuff that isn't. This isn't a point, but a "I'VE WATCHED SO MUCH R RATED STUFF"

At this current moment, more family anime is airing in Japan than NOT FOR CHILDREN stuff. In a year, there is more family/children anime that airs than NOT FOR CHILDREN.

Having anime in a kids section is just plain bad, unless it actually meant for kids. Of course myself I don't mind buying from the childrens section. But it's still not good that it is there. If anyone tells me it's for children I show them a short clip of Girls Bravo ... that would change anyone's mind in an instant.

I never said it belongs in the Children's section. I said you shouldn't get irritated about it. Again, the only reason you should feel offended is if you are insecure....which I think you are by this entire post.

Anime = Japanese Animation .... not Japanese Cartoons.

Please don't have me address the stupidity in this.

TL;DR: To put it simply, Cartoons and anime are "not" the same thing in an american sense. The only time they are seen as the same is when someone has no clue about actual anime. Also keep in Mind Japan and America have different rating systems. Something in Japan that is for older teens could be rated much higher in america. There is just to much sexual content and references, along with blood, gore, and violence for the majority of anime to be for kids.

Please keep in mind that an R rating means older teens. R = 17 and older.
Please keep in mind that animation is animation, no matter the genre or nationality. Therefore, cartoons=cartoons.
Please keep in mind that you looked way too deep into my post and drew out way too many conclusions that weren't there, overlooking what the true intentions were.

[brabbit1987]

First of all, I watch new anime when it comes out from Japan. As for it being family oriented >.> ... are you serious? Not from what I am watching, and I am watching what is current, anime that is still being aired. I have completed 225 series and seen about 300+ series. I don't just watch R rated stuff. I don't know where you are getting your information from .. but obviously not from a reliable source.

As for your PHD comment. Actually, while I do not have a PHD, I do study art and animation at The Art Institute. As I said, I have studied the history on anime itself, for one of my reports in college. So yes .. I would hope I know what I am talking about. I also am the founder and have been the president of the anime club at my college. I have even been offered to staff at Anime Expo in LA, California ... the largest convention in the US.


Also I am not generalizing. American cartoons, is mainly for kids. Anime is not mainly for kids, it's for all ages. In america there are "some" adult / older teen cartoons, family guy, simpsons, south park, duck man, hunger teen aqua force ... just to name a few. All these are humor adult cartoons and usually have dirty jokes or sexual references or just plain stupid humor.


Anime, however, is not like this. Anime has compelling story lines, and even if it was made for kids .. it's still tons more mature then any american kid cartoon. If we go further up the chain. We begin to notice many genres within anime that has different age groups and different demographics.


Bara, Bishoujo, Bishonen, Daiju, Harem, Hentai, Iyashikai, Josei, kodomomuke, Netorare, Seinen, Shonen, Sentai, Shojo, ... there are more but that all I can think of right now.


I would like to point out the majority of anime is meant for ages 18 - 40. Kodomomuke is specifically considered childrens anime which would be younger then your typical viewers. Example would be Hamtaro, Demashita! Powerpuff Girls Z, Kirby of the Stars, Pretty Cure, Doraemon. I don't know about you ... but I certainly don't think the majority of anime created is Kodomomuke.


As for family oriented ... again I fail to see how that is the case. The majority is not family oriented. The ones that are currently still airing and might be family oritented are, Ano Hi Mita Hana No Namae O Bokutachi Wa Mada Shiranai, Bleach, Naruto, Cardfight! Vanguard, Fairy Tail and so on. However this is like only 35% of the current anime airing. The majority of it .. is certainly not intended for kids nor family oritented. Matter of fact ... 0% is currently kid oriented .. at least anything new that is.


So again I will say ... you do not know what you are talking about. Also I am not insecure ... standing up for something one believes in ... is certainly not an insecurity. If I was so insecure ... would I walk around with Neko Mimi on in public XD? I don't care what others think ... but I will still correct them when I feel they are wrong. And unlike you .. I don't personally attack others or make judgements on who that person is.

Anyway .. you might as well not even bother to respond. This is my views on this topic and nothing will change that. So responding will just be stupid on your part. Unless you enjoy trolling ... then by all means continue. I enjoy argueing and can go on for ever :3.

"The majority of anime is aimed at children, guys, just as the majority of American animation." <--- XD ... retarded statment of the year.

[Bandit Keith]

Funny how this is 50/50 this new discussion on the topic yet off of it.

Older western style animation was more a all around type of thing[alittle bit for every age group to enjoy in a majority of programing years ago] now adays its mostly kid based

Anime on the other hand is like brabbit1987 (http://diaperedanime.com/forum/member.php?u=27984) said,albeit age ratings are wakko compared in Japan to Americas age rating

[xxxxxxxxxxxx]

raven_steel, while it is true that it may be insulting for some otakus that anime is in the children's section of the store. i say warn about it, and if you are not heard, just wait for the angry mothers to walk into the store after they buy something that is NOT child friendly. bam. problem solved.

as for brabbit and servitude
oy...
first of all, brabbit, anime is indeed a form of animation, and anime, at its core, is a form of cartoon.

cartoons are drawings or sketches of something. aka, not a photo of something, which anime happens to be. animation is taking many pictures and displaying one after the other, so that the image appears to be moving in some manner. if you feel the need to see for yourself, examine these articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartoon

servitude. most anime is not intended for children, there are a few that are... but most animes fall in the range of 12+. more of the popular animes are for the ages of 16+
i cannot find a good aggregator, but you can search most items on this list individually.
http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Anime_Series
the difference between anime and american animation is that american animation has a lot of its roots with a little company called disney. perhaps you have heard of them? disney primarily made family friendly cartoons. with this branding in place, most of the competitors followed key

also what is with the meaningless "you are insecure" and "retarded statement of the year" stuff? even if that was the case, this is not the place =(

[brabbit1987]

raven_steel, while it is true that it may be insulting for some otakus that anime is in the children's section of the store. i say warn about it, and if you are not heard, just wait for the angry mothers to walk into the store after they buy something that is NOT child friendly. bam. problem solved.

as for brabbit and servitude
oy...
first of all, brabbit, anime is indeed a form of animation, and anime, at its core, is a form of cartoon.

cartoons are drawings or sketches of something. aka, not a photo of something, which anime happens to be. animation is taking many pictures and displaying one after the other, so that the image appears to be moving in some manner. if you feel the need to see for yourself, examine these articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartoon

servitude. most anime is not intended for children, there are a few that are... but most animes fall in the range of 12+. more of the popular animes are for the ages of 16+
i cannot find a good aggregator, but you can search most items on this list individually.
http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Anime_Series
the difference between anime and american animation is that american animation has a lot of its roots with a little company called disney. perhaps you have heard of them? disney primarily made family friendly cartoons. with this branding in place, most of the competitors followed key

also what is with the meaningless "you are insecure" and "retarded statement of the year" stuff? even if that was the case, this is not the place =(

First of all ... to clarify. I already know about the definitions and such. I have already stated that I do not consider anime as cartoons because of how it's used these days. Cartoons definition is not even used properly and it's used and refured to something kids usually watch.

As for the retarded statment of the year ... It's certainly not a personal attack. I said the statment was retarded .. not the person.

[xxxxxxxxxxxx]

so your definition was an opinion... fair enough then. just try not to argue about it then. =p

[brabbit1987]

so your definition was an opinion... fair enough then. just try not to argue about it then. =p

No, not really opinion based. More like society based. Certain words in the dictonary mean different things due to the views of society. Example ... the term Gay means happy according to a dictionary, but by society most would think you where talking about homosexuality.

By most people in society, if you where to say "cartoon", one would assume you are talking about some type of kids show or young teen based show, like Teen Titans. If the person was older, they would probably think Looney Toons. This is why it is not proper to consider anime a cartoon.

I mean imagine if, in this day and age, you used terms properly from the dictionary intead of using what society uses and you went around telling people about how gay you are. This is of course assuming you live in America. You would certainly have to explain it, or you could let people think you are homosexual if you really don't care. You could skip the whole headach if you are smart enough to know how to socialize properly with people around you, and know which terms are not used properly.

Another example would be telling your parents you are going to watch a cartoon and they say "Oh great! Bring your younger sister along." Say she is 4 years old. Now wouldn't it be better to automatically say anime instead of cartoon ... and have them ask what it is and you can explain? From there anytime you say anime they will know what you are talking about isntead of being confused when you say cartoon. This is also why in America, someone will call south park an adult cartoon, not just a cartoon ... even though it really is just a cartoon. We try to categorize it to make it less confusing. Just as anime has been categorized as anime and is rarley ever said to be a cartoon among society who knows about anime.

You could say how smart you are because you know the correct meaning ... but truthfully it doesn't prove you are smart .. it proves the opposite. No common sense when it comes to social behavior.

Now this has become serisously off topic. So would you like to try me again? Or are you going to continue? And if you still don't get it ... then I don't know how else to explain it. I tried to simplify what I mean as best as I could. Truthfully, I can't even believe I had to explain this. I thought this was common knowledge.

[xxxxxxxxxxxx]

please dont drag this on, we know what you are talking about. nothing more needs to be said.

i know you like arguing, you have voiced this many times. but not a lot of others do.

[brabbit1987]

please dont drag this on, we know what you are talking about. nothing more needs to be said.

i know you like arguing, you have voiced this many times. but not a lot of others do.

Then simply don't respond? I mean, if I made my point already ... why continue to respond to me in a disagreeing reply? If you understand, then just say "Ohhh .. ok, I get what you mean. Sorry." Then the topic would be ended. Just remember it takes 2 to argue :3

[xxxxxxxxxxxx]

it seems you misunderstood the nature of my post

"fair enough then. just try not to argue about it then." means that i indeed understand what you mean, but it is not what servitude was talking about, so attempt to not argue about it. trying to be diplomatic to both sides is not easy. i am not saying that because i agree with you, what you have mentioned is an opinion. and an opinion is an opinion. i will probably never change yours, and you will probably never change anyone elses.

the last response was me telling you that my last post was not an argument, but merely trying to stop an argument that appears that will go nowhere. it would seem that the post only suceeded in starting up another argument.

why am i responding? because you truly miss that i was not trying to argue. i am not being condescending, i am not disagreeing, i know you are intelligent enough to see a fair amount more than others in some aspects, i have seen you reply in a manner that has flown over many people's heads. but that doesnt mean that any response to you is an argument. ok?

[brabbit1987]

it seems you misunderstood the nature of my post

"fair enough then. just try not to argue about it then." means that i indeed understand what you mean, but it is not what servitude was talking about, so attempt to not argue about it. trying to be diplomatic to both sides is not easy. i am not saying that because i agree with you, what you have mentioned is an opinion. and an opinion is an opinion. i will probably never change yours, and you will probably never change anyone elses.

the last response was me telling you that my last post was not an argument, but merely trying to stop an argument that appears that will go nowhere. it would seem that the post only suceeded in starting up another argument.

why am i responding? because you truly miss that i was not trying to argue. i am not being condescending, i am not disagreeing, i know you are intelligent enough to see a fair amount more than others in some aspects, i have seen you reply in a manner that has flown over many people's heads. but that doesnt mean that any response to you is an argument. ok?

Lol I am a bit childish. :p But I will admit you are right. Opinions are hard to change. I have changed others opinions in the past many times, but it really depends on the person and how well I can convey my point. I study just about everything, including human nature. Oh btw I know you where not trying to argue ... I was just being a smart ass. I wanted to see if you would respond or not.

[Raven_Steel]

The issue was never about anime not being a cartoon. Of course anime is a cartoon, the issue was mature content being classified as children. The childrens section is designed for kids 10 and under, the anime is designated should not be next to this section. All it would take is one parent buying some mature anime for their kid thinking it was simply another dora cartoon, on major complaint like that and my anime section would be done. It is irresponsible to put mature content next to some kids show just because both are animated.

[TentacleV]

Anime is actually a contraction of 'animeeshon' which is the Japanese word for animation... of ANY source.
Anime =/= Japan-only animation
The use of the word anime in English may of been popularly adapted to refer to Japanese animation, but the proper definition includes Disney films.

Otaku is a degrading slang term used to imply that someone is creepily obsessive about something. It's like the word geek or fanboy/fangirl. It can be used for any sort of obsessed individual. For example: Sousuke Sagara/Kensuke Aida is a gunji otaku(military geek)

Hentai is a degrading slang term used to imply that someone is a creepy pervert. It is not used at all in Japan as a word for porn. Hentai is another word that has been adapted into English with a different meaning.
Technically though, all the sexual fanservice junk is softcore pornography anyway so it's not like your sister was too wrong. It's just not full out pornography.

I have to argue that "shounen anime" are young teen cartoons too simply because shounen [i]is[/] the young teen demographic. So if western young teen cartoons go in 'Children' section then logically "shounen anime" should go in that section too if you're following that idea. Obviously Japanese cartoons aimed at teens are usually rated higher over here unless 4Kids gets to it, but it doesn't change the fact that you're watching the Japanese equivalent of Ben 10.

I think I prefer how my local video store categorises them. They have an Animation section which includes stuff like South Park or Family Guy as well as most Japanese-derived animation. The Children section only really has 4Kids dubs and the usually Children section stuff.

It is ridiculous to mark all animation under Children though. Only stuff dubbed by 4Kids or whatever suit that section. There is enough animation rated above PG to warrant it's own section. Either that, or put them in the relevant category that ignores the fact it's animation at all.
I can agree that it's irresponsible, but I don't think it's really offensive to fans. It's just a stupid decision made by someone extremely naive. I'm surprised this still happens. I thought people already realised that R rated cartoons aren't suitable for kids.

[brabbit1987]

I am well aware of all those definition, however I live in America. If I lived in Japan I would use them how it's used there.

Otaku in america means someone who is an anime/manga fan ... thats pretty much it. Though sometimes it can extend a bit further and include games and such.

Anime in america pretty much means animation created in Japan. A great example of this would be in LA at "Anime Expo", you don't see bugs bunny, at least not usually XD. However this has been debated pretty often due to Americans also making cartoons that are much more similar to anime. So some feel the meaning should have to do with the art style alone. In which case Ben 10 would then be considered Anime.

Anyone who watches anime ... most certainly would know how the term Hentai is used as it appears in anime all the time. Again I live in America .. it's not used that way.

You forget america and many other countries have borrowed words from other countries. The definition do not always mean the same exact thing. Japan has countless borrowed words from english. So no offense, but get with the program ... it's nothing new.

As for the rest ... I agree. :p

[Doxy]

Raven, just a simple question here: have you shown your general or district managers any pictures/video from Elfen Lied, etc? That might drive home the idea that some things should not be in the children's section - mention the last thing anyone wants is an angry parent coming in.

[Bandit Keith]

Raven, just a simple question here: have you shown your general or district managers any pictures/video from Elfen Lied, etc? That might drive home the idea that some things should not be in the children's section - mention the last thing anyone wants is an angry parent coming in.

Thats a good ideal but if that doesn't get the message across then show a clip from Club-to-Death angel Dokuro-chan this would be a good clip for it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqswkv15VRw&feature=related

[Raven_Steel]

Yeah I have spoken with our GM about it, but he said there was nothing he could do about it. I let the issue drop, but I did tell him a customer would eventually complain. Retail can be a pain.