Offensive Art and How to Deal with It

[daemon]

The main reason we get all these different types of people is because the wall to entry is basically null, which I like. Yes, there are flamers and demoralizers everywhere and half of this is their fault and the other half is the artists. I'm talking about leaving the site that is, not submitting bad work. If they don't wish to deal with flamers and haters (Which are found everywhere) they don't have to. Proving that you can deal with negative comments, no matter how absurd, proves they are a better person.

In regards to mute,

I usually give constructive criticism, and when I don't the general consensus is that the art is bad. If people post ANYTHING on the internet, they need to be prepared for other people to agree, disagree, love, or hate it. It's the way the world works, and it saddens me greatly that people 'flip out' when art is described as "bad."

This is a fetish site, intended for people who are, at the very least, physically mature. If the site is geared towards and ADULT and MATURE audience, then people should be mature about dealing with artwork. I personally feel, Mute, that you're overreacting.

The art world is a competitive scene, where people usually try to get BETTER at what they do, in order to, at the very least, beat out their older works. In a competition, even with yourself, there isn't always a reward for trying. As yoda once said, "There is no try, only do. You do, or you do not do."

Just because I ran a triathlon doesn't mean I should expect a reward upon completion. Just because I post a picture or a story doesn't mean I should expect praise. Always assume that your work isn't that great, and you will never be disappointed.

There comes a point in time where people will also begin getting upset, as I have today, when an artist takes no pointers, does NOT respond to comments or critique, and then continues posting terrible images that, as stated, are simply terrible. When things in an image are traced and are STILL terrible, there's something clearly wrong.

Beyond that, I can assume that your comments at me are geared more directly to my recent comments towards the 'artist,' and I use that term lightly, becky32. To be honest, 90% of the faces in those images look like rejected memes and offer no decent artistic compensation to the viewer.

I'm not saying I can do better, I'm just an average dude. But that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion and voice it.

In regards to the rule, you can then turn that against nearly everyone. Constructive criticism isn't just about BAD artwork, it's about GOOD artwork too. Explaining what was correct in an image is constructive, whilst just saying "I like it" is not. You see how one can take that rule and turn it around, right? It's not very difficult. I've seen it used on a few forums, and it constantly stirs up debate. People get upset when people say "this sucks," and don't explain why. Why not when they don't explain why they love it? That's just as bad, if not worse, because at that point the artist then has NO IDEA what specifically they did right! I don't think it's easy to disagree with this, but if you manage a way too I'd be happy to respond to your retort.

Moving on, an artist's skill is judged by the people who view it, NOT themselves. Leanardo Davinchi, Michaelangelo, even modern day artists are only famous as they because OTHER people like their art! You may like what you've done yourself, but that doesn't mean squat if others despise or just generally dislike the image. I mean, of course on a fetish site each picture is geared towards a certain crowd, but other than that, a picture should be judged from a neutral standpoint. When I comment on a picture, I don't do so lightly. I think that it's an honorable and meaningful thing to voice your opinion, regardless if it is in real life or on the internet. When one person does, if others don't agree, that's simply their own problem.

In short, and conclusion...

If you don't like art, speak your mind. If you do like art, speak your mind.

If you think something is bad but offer NO criticism, the picture should, at the very least, be absolutely terrible for reasons obvious to the general viewer, and should be the general consensus.

You're just as wrong for posting "I like it" as you are for saying "This is terrible" on a picture by site rules, at their base definition.

In real life, people will say whatever it is they want. They will say that your art is terrible, and NOT give you good reason. If you can't handle that, don't write, don't draw, don't put yourself out there. You need to be mature enough to respect others' opinions before you start putting out a product.

~1337

[Mute-Hexyz]

@1337spartan1337 you are correct I am overreacting . I know the art world is competitive. It's part of the reason I get so worked up over bad criticism on art work. I've taken countless classes and I've been told my art is crap by the teachers and I wasted more and more money on these pointless college courses I aced. I've actually stopped praticing drawing since the bad criticism kept me from wanting to draw. I refuse to even call myself an artist since most artists are condescending snobs.

I could never get better than an artist that already draws better than me. so why bother trying when that artist will be 5 steps ahead of you? as you said its a competition. It seems you are either born an artist and have a desire to draw or your just some one who draws for fun.I can see how a postitive comment can be un-constructiive criticsm.

I gotta stop reading comments since i'm still feeling horrible. sorry.

I'd hate to see people quit like me is all i'm saying. I was demoralized during a 3 hour art presentation and I was insulted too by the entire class.

@Mute

Well, then I suppose this small bit of debate is over. No hard feelings, eh?

[Mute-Hexyz]

Originally Posted by l337spartanl337

@Mute

Well, then I suppose this small bit of debate is over. No hard feelings, eh?

Wait so you think since I backed down and renounced my title as an artist this is over?! What about other artists who quit because of the mean comments? I really wanted to draw some pics for the site I really wanted to become an esteemed artist here but it seems people rather control the gallery with comments then give a crap about how long they spend on a drawing. It takes me 3-5 days to do a drawing so you are aware. If i drew something and posted it and you critics attacked me for being a lousy artist, guess what those three days are gone and you guys feel great for saying your mean opinions. You have no idea what it feels like to do your best spend time then get your dreams smashed by an ignorant critic.

There was a time when all the coments were helpful to new artists what happened? My guess is you guys became heartless over time. Suddenly you take art classes and think you know enough stuff to pass judgment on others enough to make them quit. You seem to have forgotten that art takes a long time or maybe you don't make drawings any more since its too time consuming. I think if you don't draw you shouldn't be able to criticise since its hypocritical to say you know great art when you stopped making great art. Artistic skills are something people develope.When you crush someones desire to get better at art you just removed a potential artist from the world.

[Smilekat]

When was this time you are talking about, where all comments were helpful. There have been mean comments towards art ever since I first came here, just not as much. That was for two reasons, first we had fewer members and therefor fewer jerks, but also there was less art and therefore less crap art.

Fact of the matter is I think, regardless of the rules of a site, that if post anything on the net you need to be ready for criticism, including bad criticism. Its just one of the inevitable evils of the internet, happens regardless of the rules or the mods.

Additionally, while I do think that we have to many nasty flamers, some of the artists and the writers have really thin skins, and can't seem to deal with any criticism. Mind you this is a minor problem compared to the flamers, but I do notice it.

And frankly, I'm not sure telling someone their art is bad is neccesarily an evil. I mean, there's some artwork that's so obviously had no effort whatsoever put inot it (like those godawful edits where someone took an image and drw a diaper on using smeared liquid paper) that I think we're in our rights to call the artist out on it.


And even constructive criticism can be really harsh. I mean, sometimes a work that someone put allot of effort into just isn't very good and has numerous things wrong with it and little if anything to recomend, so constructive criticism involves tearing it apart and explaining why each piece fails.

(imagine trying to constructively criticise Twilight, for example, or Soni-Chu, or F.A.T.A.L., granted these are extreme, very extreme, examples, but you get my point)

And I think the "if you don't draw dont' criticize" is pure bullsh*t. That like saying I can't criticize a book or a movie or a video game because I don't make those. Its silly, art posted on the net is posted so others can enjoy it. I'm certainly well qualified to say whether or not I enjoyed it. I don't need to draw to be able to tell the difference between say Tamae's work and an edit done in MS paint over a lunch break.

Fact is, the effort put inot a piece doesn't determine its quality. I've speant days working on assignments that I flunked, I speant years that I'll never get back trying to learn to sing, but my voice is just terrible,. Yes its painful, but sometimes the fruits of our hard labors simply aren't very good. Part of growing up is excepting that sometimes we fail.

And, while I hate to say this, sometimes its good to have a reality check, someone to tell you honestly that you just arent' very good, so you move on and avoid bigger problems/disapointments down the line. The thing that made me give up singing was not constructive criticism, but being booed off stage at a talent show. And frankly, I'm glad, now, I wished I had given up earlier. I deserved to be booed off stage, I got up there and presented bad singing, I put allot of work into it, but it was still bad.


Mute, almost everyone has had a dream smashed by an ignorant critic. I've had several, its part of life.

But just because someone who can't draw doesn't enjoy your art doesn't make them ignorant. This site isn't a major intelectual fair, its a general open site. Things posted here are made excessible to the general public, and the general public can decide whether or not it enjoys them.

I'm not defending the poor manners of some of the people on this site or the internet as a whole, but I feel that your position just doesn't work. Its a director from a failed movie posting on his blog that its the fault of the general public for not "getting" the movie. Well, maybe, maybe only a small elite cadre of super nerds can appreciate your work, but then why make it into a movie open to general release? The same goes for anything on the internet, if you post on a site for the general public, you dont' get to claim "you can't criticize cause you're not an art major" Frankly I find the idea that a trained artist is somehow "better" than everyone else and therefore above criticism from the "unwashed masses" to be just silly.

And Look at it from the other side. the gallery is clogged with trash, I don't even look through the communal gallery anymore because the good stuff is so rare, same with the communal story section, its annoying to wade through crud to find the decent works. And the whole internet is like that, plugged with sub par stuff. It gets on your nerves. So when a new piece of bad work or writing appears, I can understand being frustrated and annoyed. Especially when someone posts bad artwork and says "no criticism" it just feels like they're giving you the middle finger.

I again don't want ot defend flamers who attack every slightest fault, but still.

And Frankly good art tends to get the praise it deserves so I don't worry about it

[Mute-Hexyz]

@smile You're right I have to take a reality check on the artistic world and on the internet. I may dissagree that bashing art is a passtime on the interent for people but it is as well as trolling and flaming. To be honest I've been living in a delusional world where i think the world should be one way when in reality its not. Its a dog eat dog world full of competition and hate sometimes that I can't deal with and i should stop complaining about stuff I have no way of controlling. Why should anyone try to change the way things are when in reality nothing can be changed. I'm getting tired of being told my art work is great by people then having all the confidence drained out of me by a teacher or critic then publicly humilated and demoralized. I was also proud of being a singer when i was younger and went up on stage and was booed off the stage.

I think artists have thin skins becuase we put a lot of hope and faith and pride in our work and those are very delicate emotions. I mean isn't art just a way of expressing one's self? Doesn't it make sense that artists can be super sensitive if they put a lot of energy into something that they know can be smashed to pieces?

Well i'm tired of ranting about reality and art in general. I should really stop commenting becuase i'm in a transitional phase from one college to another one that I have to find. I'm stressed so maybe I'll knock off the comments since I'm not helping. I'm not looking for sympathy i'm not look for people to feel sorry for or stop being mean completely. I don't even want people to admire my work. I just want people to think about what they say before they comment is all I guess.

[Smilekat]

Mute, hope everything works out for you wherever it is you're going.

[m00gle87]

It is possible to tell someone that theyre horrid without being malicious.

As for self esteem issues, take a step back and examine why you are drawing in the first place. I know that when artists share something, they expect at least someone to appreciate it for the same reason they made it. I don't think most people have actual reasons why they made anything, hence them putting up half assed things yet expecting the praise without the hard work.

[Clop]

I don't see the point in talking about this at all, because people choose to act how they do. A little forum thread whatever is not going to change that... Saying this may be pessimistic, but sometimes reality is a bit shady.