Your thoughts about Sci-Fi movies and/or their franchises

[Bandit Keith]

Originally Posted by toxic34

Wel, many of the same problems the prequels have are also present in the original trilogy. Luke has his whiny moments, the dialogue is somewhat torturous and mere exposition dumps, C-3PO can annoy you to the point you wish he'd disappear, and so on. But each film transcends these little weaknesses to become something truly big and wonderful. The original saga is a great experience, a masterpiece, flawed as it may be. Disney won't remove that from existence, despite what Internet critics predict. Without the prequels, the events of the original trilogy, the sequel trilogy, and the anthology films simply cannot occur. And there won't be a "Days Of Future Past"-like event to change that.

I enjoy Star Wars, top to bottom. I am blessed to have it in various editions:
-1995 Original Trilogy VHS box set (last full release of unaltered versions)
-1997 Original Trilogy Special Edition VHS box set
-2000 Episode I Widescreen VHS with bonus making-of documentary, photobook and mounted filmstrip
-Widescreen DVDs of Prequel Trilogy
-2004 Original Trilogy DVD box set
-2006 Original Trilogy Limited Edition Set with unaltered version bonus discs
-2011 "Complete Saga" Blu-ray set
-DVD/Blu-ray/Digital HD combo versions of The Force Awakens and Rogue One

I won't argue that having the unaltered version is a vary good thing to have on VHS for the money you can get and collectors value aswell but so far to me and not to be a rude asshole or anything, but I am getting the feeling you might be a over the top Star wars fan as in a obsessive fanboy/girl not quite Rabid level but to the point you'd defend it regardless unless their isn't any logic you can find to defend it. Also sounds like you'd be the type to try to get everything starwars you can unless its parody stuff or none canon stuff then you'd say screw the parody and none canon items

[toxic34]

I actually have Spaceballs, the Family Guy and Robot Chicken specials, the movie Fanboys, and so on. In fact I particularly like moments with Gary the Stormtrooper.

I never said anything in Star Wars is flawless. In fact, virtually nothing is. But simply put, the prequels don't deserve the rock bottom reputation they have received. They may be flawed, but they're still damn good films. Especially when a lot of the "facts", especially those posted by Mr. Plinkett and Simon Pegg, are myths (No, Jar Jar is not a racist stereotype, there are actually 2000 practical effects shots in Episode I, which is triple the original trilogy combined, and there are very descriptive ways to describe the main characters like Qui-Gon Jinn.)

[Bandit Keith]

Originally Posted by toxic34

I actually have Spaceballs, the Family Guy and Robot Chicken specials, the movie Fanboys, and so on. In fact I particularly like moments with Gary the Stormtrooper.

I never said anything in Star Wars is flawless. In fact, virtually nothing is. But simply put, the prequels don't deserve the rock bottom reputation they have received. They may be flawed, but they're still damn good films. Especially when a lot of the "facts", especially those posted by Mr. Plinkett and Simon Pegg, are myths (No, Jar Jar is not a racist stereotype, there are actually 2000 practical effects shots in Episode I, which is triple the original trilogy combined, and there are very descriptive ways to describe the main characters like Qui-Gon Jinn.)

I stand corrected on the first part you said but otherwise my point/view still stands to a degree as I said on you defending them unless their is no logic to do so. After all you aren't blindingly defending them or the like . Also agreed on Jar Jar is not a racist stereotype closest thing to racist about him you could claim is how he sounds when talking but it still isn't a racist stereotype atleast in my eyes he really has nothing racist to him. The Jar-Jar myth I think sprang up do to how the old saying goes ''If you look for it ,you will find it'' You know whether what you are looking for is their or not to began with people will warp something till what they was looking for they see in something

[toxic34]

Well, you can feel free to believe that if you want. Personally, I say that a lot of the frustration comes because fans felt the series was particularly for them, tailor-made to fit them, and their own personal thoughts of how the chronology occurred. That they own it, and are owed personally, and thus take it as an offense. Me, I'm grateful for what I get, and I make sure not to be greedy about it.

It's different with Alien and Terminator and so on because that is the result of corporate meddling, rather than a pursuit of an artistic vision.

[Dialga]

There are many things bad you could say about Jar-Jar and they might all be true, but when I first heard the criticism that he was a racist stereotype, I was baffled. Even today, I don't get it.

Even so, so what? Stereotypes do exist for a reason, and that doesn't mean a character who embodies a stereotype can't be a good character.

I'm willing to admit the Prequels aren't the worst movies ever made. Ep. 3 actually isn't that bad, in my opinion. There's still glaring flaws and serious problems that jump out at me and prevent me from enjoying a film. Then again, I have peculiar tastes. The two films I consider to be the worst i've ever seen are considered to be 'great' by the mainsteam: That is Seabiscuit and Dark Knight.

[Bandit Keith]

Originally Posted by Dialga

There are many things bad you could say about Jar-Jar and they might all be true, but when I first heard the criticism that he was a racist stereotype, I was baffled. Even today, I don't get it.

Even so, so what? Stereotypes do exist for a reason, and that doesn't mean a character who embodies a stereotype can't be a good character.

I'm willing to admit the Prequels aren't the worst movies ever made. Ep. 3 actually isn't that bad, in my opinion. There's still glaring flaws and serious problems that jump out at me and prevent me from enjoying a film. Then again, I have peculiar tastes. The two films I consider to be the worst i've ever seen are considered to be 'great' by the mainsteam: That is Seabiscuit and Dark Knight.

Yeah that racist thing on Jar-Jar baffles me unless the old saying is true,still yes Stereotypes do exist for a reason , some are honestly true that happen in a small degree now a days , while other sterotypes aren't true anymore but are still around . Also yeah I'm not a fan of the Dark Knight movies

Anyway yeah movie problems can make or break something for me even series problems can break a series for me

[toxic34]

Probably biggest case of "making or breaking a series" is the Resident Evil film series. Originally, George Romero was to have done the film, which would've been a straight retelling of the original game, though with some noticeable liberties. However, Romero had seen the entire game and had taken extensive notes, so he knew what it was about and what the point was. Strangely, Capcom/Sony stated that Romero's script wasn't up to scratch, and they moved to Paul W.S. Anderson's abortion of a script instead. Simply put, Alice is the ultimate representation of a Mary Sue, and the film series has almost no relation to the source material. In addition, the films simply have no continuity with each other, as things are introduced, dropped and altered at the drop of a hat.

[terminator101]

Originally Posted by toxic34

I think this explains a lot of things relating to T2, and also demonstrates why James Cameron intended the series to only be the two films: http://www.jamescamerononline.com/T2FAQ.htm

First, I'd like to point out that the site to which you linked is not run by James Cameron himself but by fans of the director and his films. In the site's index page -> http://www.jamescamerononline.com/index.htm, under "Featured Exclusives" it says that "JamesCameronOnline.com spoke to James Cameron himself about his road to becoming a vegan ..." - If it was run by James Cameron himself then how could it be an exclusive since supposedly he would be the admin there and could have easily set up the interview himself?


I have to say that it is a very informative site though it should be noted that the idea that James Cameron indeed intended for the Terminator franchise to only last for two movies is only fan speculation. Some of the information there also runs into inconsistencies. For instance, in bulletpoint "8. WHAT IS EVIL TERMINATOR'S MODEL NUMBER AND TECHNICAL DATA?", it says that "The passage above also points out that T-1000 is autonomous, meaning it isn't controlled or dependent of Skynet. The reason is that it doesn't have a CPU and is a brand new, completely different technology. ..." and in bulletpoint "28. WAS T-1000 IN AGONY WHILE MELTING ?" it says "... Keep in mind this is not one machine, its thousands of nano machines working together." If that is true then why did the T-1000 not recover from the fatal blow that the T-800 dealt it when the T-800 hit the T-1000 with a shot from its M79 grenade launcher, square in the T-1000's chest which is its fatal weak spot where its supposedly non-existent CPU would be (Similar to the Transformers Headmasters whose CPU is not located in its head) causing it to explode (See position 1:23 in the following video clip)-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOFrwimPMZM. If the T-1000 was indeed composed of thousands of nano machines, then wouldn't the ones located in its chest simply get replaced by functioning ones located from all over the other parts of its body and the damaged or destroyed ones in the chest get moved by the others to less critical parts of its collective body? Throughout the T2 movie, the T-1000 appeared to be impervious to such attacks on other parts of its body not near its center chest area, always recovering with seemingly no sustained damage.


Also, in bulletpoint "27. WHY DIDN'T JOHN AND T-800 DISAPPEAR AT THE END?", the website describes "Cause and Effect" and how an effect that has already happened wouldn't change simply because the cause has been removed the second time around if one goes back in time and removes the cause. I'm not a temporal physicist (If there will be such a profession in the future) and I'm sure neither is the author of that article, so it's all speculation on his or her part whether what was said in buletpoint 27 is true (I challenge him or her to actually prove it!).


To top it all off, SlashFilm.com, a site run by other sci-fi film fans said that James Cameron will produce (Not direct) the sixth Terminator movie which will pick up where Terminator Genisys left off -> http://www.slashfilm.com/terminator-...nd-tim-miller/ which seems to contradict the notion that James Cameron intended for the Terminator franchise to end after two movies!

Originally Posted by toxic34

On another note, it's quite thrilling to see the pendulum turn and people willing to defend the Star Wars prequel trilogy: https://www.google.com/#q=in+defense...+wars+prequels ...

IMHO, the Star Wars prequel trilogy was an interesting addition to the franchise. It had its good concepts (Like the introduction of the Clone Troopers, Darth Maul and his double bladed light saber which allowed him to fight two Jedi simultaneously, The Jedi Council [Yoda was fast and ferocious in his fight with Count Dooku] and of course the origin of Darth Vader) and its bad concepts (The standard Battle Droids were little more than cannon fodder for the Jedi and Clone Troopers. They were nothing compared to the Destroyer droids. Also, some peeps did view the voice of Jar Jar Binks as portraying that of a racist caricature of a black person circa pre-1950s, a "Sambo" [See examples of cartoon shorts -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDslE0CMLvc *Pay attention to the voices of the dog at position 1:07 and the "Mammy" at position 1:11] and practically all of the voices in "Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarfs" [This short was hard to find due to its content. I couldn't find it complete on YouTube. I did find it complete at]-> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x51...e-s_shortfilms). The people who've experienced those racist times can tell the people who don't understand why such content or voices like Jar's Jar's might be reminders of racism, "You had to be there." or "Walk a mile in my shoes then you'll understand."


IMHO, the prequel trilogy can't compare to the original trilogy with The Empire Strikes Back being the best of the three with its storyline (Darth Vader being Luke's father was a bombshell when the movie was first released! Everyone at the theater where I saw it exclaimed a collective "Woah!" when Darth Vader told Luke "No. I am your father!") and great special effects via painstaking Stop Motion animation before the advent of CGI animation (See -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bRUKncunwA and -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIlYk7KQe-s) with all of the model vehicles [AT-AT and AT-ST Walkers, Snow Speeders], starfighters/bombers [Tie Interceptors, Tie Bombers] and capital ships [The Executioner - Darth Vader's personal super Star Destroyer]. IMHO, Return of the Jedi was the least enjoyable (Too many muppets like the Ewoks turned it from a serious Sci-Fi movie and more into a family movie targeted at young kids).

Originally Posted by Dialga

There are many things bad you could say about Jar-Jar and they might all be true, but when I first heard the criticism that he was a racist stereotype, I was baffled. Even today, I don't get it. ...

See what I wrote above on the subject.

Originally Posted by Dialga

Even so, so what? Stereotypes do exist for a reason, and that doesn't mean a character who embodies a stereotype can't be a good character. ...

It is true that stereotypes do exist for a reason. Some stereotypes (e.g. A picture of a woman breastfeeding a baby, embodying all woman as a loving and caring mother) are desirable while others (e.g. Racist stereotypes) are not helpful in keeping the peace and only promote hate. Do you want to live in a world of peace or one filled with hate?

[pyro]

Originally Posted by Dialga

For example, the first reveal of the Emperor in Empire Strikes Back, his hologram changed so he looks more like he does in Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi. Though my personal favorite is in A New Hope where Stormtroopers storm in to the control room CP30 and R2-D2 are hiding in, and one hits their helmet on the door. The special edition actually adds a distinctive *dink* that makes it even funnier. You be the judge.

Actually on the count of them changing the emperors hologram. I get it. They actually replaced the fotage of the hologram with fotage of Ian McDiarmid so that is the same actor through the saga. The stormtrooper hitting his head was a mistake in the original verson. And no one noticed.

The main issue every body has is with the DVD editons in which David Shaw is replaced with Hayden Christensen. Which makes no sense what so ever.


And most people agree. The Story in all of the Star Wars movies is great, but the dialoge could use a lot of work.

[toxic34]

An interesting addition to the conversation: https://www.retrozap.com/your-focus-...rs-plot-holes/.

This is part of a larger series: https://www.retrozap.com/power-to-the-prequels/